The Sterling Affairs: Lets Talk Clipped Episode One
Cleopatra Coleman (as V. Stiviano): Mr. Sterling always says, “Some teams sell success. The Clippers sell hope.” What he means is we usually lose. He says a lot of things he shouldn’t.
Ramona Shelburne: Welcome to a very special spin-off of The Sterling Affairs: Let’s Talk Clipped. I’m Ramona Shelburne, host and reporter of the original ESPN 30 For 30 podcast The Sterling Affairs and executive producer of Clipped, an FX and Hulu sports drama based on the podcast.
Ramona Shelburne: Each week on the show I’ll sit down with members of the Clipped cast and crew to talk about what it was like to make the latest episode. We closely analyze the best scenes, react to the episode’s craziest moments, and of course give you lots of behind-the-scenes juiciness.
Ramona Shelburne: Fair warning, these conversations are going to have spoilers so if you care about that kinda thing you’ll wanna watch the relevant episode beforehand, which you can stream any time on Hulu. Today we’re talking about episodes one and two in which Coach Doc Rivers joins the Los Angeles Clippers and attempts to lead the star-studded team to the playoffs.
Ramona Shelburne: Meanwhile, V. Stiviano, Donald Sterling’s assistant, and Shelley Sterling, his wife, get increasingly frustrated in their love triangle. Something has to give, and it does when a tape that we recorded of Donald making racist remarks leaks on TMZ. Joining me on this first episode is Clipped showrunner, writer, and executive producer Gina Welch and writer and producer Rembert Browne.
Gina Welch: Hi Ramona. Thank you for having me.
Rembert Browne: Hey Ramona. Great to see you.
Ramona Shelburne: Let’s just start off with the opening monologue.
Female Voice: Now anyone can blow up in an instant so the dangerous thing about disrespecting a nobody, especially one with big–
Male Voice: The owner of the Los–
Female Voice: –big potential–
Male Voice: –Angeles Clippers–
Female Voice: –like me–
Male Voice: –is facing controversy tonight over racist comments he made in audio leaked to TMZ.
Female Voice: I’m listening.
Ramona Shelburne: Part of the reason I wanted to start there is because you started there but also it was a pretty big choice to reframe the story through her perspective, right (she’s– a young broke woman of color), rather than the Sterlings.
Gina Welch: Yeah. I mean, but the story wouldn’t have happened without her, right? One of the things we always talked about in the writers’ room is that V. really understands that the internet is a source of power for someone like her before the world did.
Gina Welch: And I think for us she’s really the most exciting character in the show because of that. She’s very modern.
Rembert Browne: As I’ve been telling people about the show and talkin’ about the show, you know, you see someone’s mind, like, go back in time. They’re like, “Oh, yeah. I remember that.” Like, sometimes you say, “The Clippers thing from 2014,” they know exactly.
Rembert Browne: But a lotta people are like, “Oh, yeah. The– the woman on the roller skates.” It, like, takes you fully back. So having that image up front combined with kind of setting up the reality of, like, “We’re gonna be taking this character seriously.” So I– I love the fact that we got to have such, like, a kinda iconic image of her up front.
Ramona Shelburne: I’m gonna back up a little bit because I wanna get to the part where we talk about you and how you got involved in the show. I already know the story behind how Gina got involved in the show. But for our listeners, how did Clipped first come across your radar?
Gina Welch: Well, I got a call– from Color Force– the producers who have a relationship with FX and had made the American Crime Story shows. And they told me about a podcast, The Sterling Affairs, that they wanted me to listen to. And I just loved it.
Gina Welch: And I loved the characters that you introduced. I loved the world of it. It felt very consistent with my experience of Los Angeles, having been here for 10 years, that it is an incredibly beguiling, trashy, shitty heaven– that is marked both by, you know, awkward parties where everybody feels like they oughta be somewhere else and racism that feels interwoven with housing.
Gina Welch: And so the Sterlings felt to me like an incredible window through which to look at the sort of seedy side of LA but with a sense of humor. I felt, at the time, that I needed kind of an emotional connection because I didn’t great V. for a long time.
Gina Welch: And– I started thinking about Doc arriving in 2013, you know, to coach a team that he played for a year in 1992, and this was really the season that everybody thought they were gonna win a championship, you know? So it was sort of a Cinderella season.
Gina Welch: And I thought, “Okay, Doc knows who he’s comin’ to coach for.” He’s played for Sterling before, and this is really his chance to triumph over this guy by bringing this team together and he gets t-boned by this tape. And so that’s what I thought the story wanted to be is the collision of those two narratives. And then Doc, with your help Ramona, agreed to be interviewed for the show and became a consultant on the show and that’s how we got started.
Ramona Shelburne: Okay. Now we wanna bring in Rem. Rembert and I got to know each other when you were a little pup writing for Grantland—
Rembert Browne: Little pup. (LAUGHTER)
Ramona Shelburne: Little pup. How old were you when you got that Grantland job?
Rembert Browne: 24.
Ramona Shelburne: Wow (SIGH)–
Rembert Browne: It was crazy. It was, like, post-recession getting a job was crazy enough and then getting one connected to ESPN and at Grantland. It was very much a ‘I can’t believe this is happening. I just got drafted outta high school.’ (LAUGH)
Ramona Shelburne: And Rem was one of the breakout stars at Grantland. Like, he immediately caught people’s eye for his writing and his ability and his take on things. And, like– you could send him anywhere and he would make it interesting. And so I– I kinda lost track of you after the Grantland thing– ended. And then Gina brought your name up to me. And I was like, “Oh, Rembert. Yes, he’s fantastic. Like, what do you want him to be in the show?” And I’ll let you take the story from there.
Rembert Browne: I remember, like, when we started talking and you told me you read that– I was working at Twitter at the time. (LAUGH) I– I very low-key did a writers’ room while having a job. (LAUGHTER) I– I mean, it is one of those things, like, I would’ve had to make a very different life decision if it wasn’t the pandemic.
Ramona Shelburne: Right.
Rembert Browne: Because we had a fully virtual writers’ room. So I talked to a couple people that I worked with that needed to know and was like, “Hey, there’s gonna be some blocks on my calendar (LAUGH) that we’re just not gonna really talk about for a couple months.”
Rembert Browne: You know, it was my first show. It was my first time– you know, I had done some, like, consulting on shows but actually being in the writers’ room. But the combination of the, like– “I remember this– the basketball of it,” but there was also something about the, like, “I was working in corporate America during George Floyd summer.”
Rembert Browne: And I remember eyes coming to me when I worked there being like, “Are you gonna say something?” And I was like, “When moments like this happen it really makes it complicated to be a black employee,” (LAUGH) you know, because there are so many things, like, you know, the texts you’re getting, the responses, the– the external things, the internal things.
Rembert Browne: And so just feeling that– that parallel– like, I had written about it but I hadn’t really been in an environment like that before. It makes you really understand the unwinnable moment, these young– these 20-something, early 30-something Black men had to go through with this and that kind of being at the early point of us expecting athletes, especially NBA players, to take a response– an opinion about something felt like this beautiful– like, the planets aligned allowing me to be a part of this in such a real way.
Laurence Fishburne (Doc Rivers): LeVar Burton? I didn’t realize you lived here.
LeVar Burton (Himself): In the sauna?
Laurence Fishburne (Doc Rivers): In LA. (LAUGH)
LeVar Burton (Himself): You know The Enterprise isn’t real, right, and I’m not actually blind.
Laurence Fishburne (Doc Rivers): All right. (LAUGHTER) All right.
Ramona Shelburne: Where did this idea that Doc Rivers was gonna have a confidant, was gonna have a friend come from? And how did it end up being LeVar Burton in the sauna?
Gina Welch: Well– we struggled a lot to try to find a character in the show that Doc could be fully honest with. You know, couldn’t be the players. I don’t think it could be the assistant coaches–
Rembert Browne: Not family–
Gina Welch: –couldn’t be anyone in the front office, couldn’t be family. And we need to find for him someone who can understand– and around whom he very quickly can be unguarded. And we really wanted to bring in, you know, someone to play themselves because we thought it could really create some of the, like, Hollywood weirdness around the show that we wanted to try to effect. So we were trying to find the right Black celebrity. We didn’t want someone who was in the world of sports, but we wanted someone who, like Doc, has a public persona of being nice, safe–
Rembert Browne: Of a certain age also–
Gina Welch: –of a certain age–
Ramona Shelburne: –was important–
Gina Welch: –a peer. This was a long-ass process. And then Rem had a light bulb.
Rembert Browne: I was on vacation and just, like, looking at every Black actor between, like, 40 and 72 and was just like, “It’s one of you. (LAUGH) It’s one of you.” And, you know, we had been for weeks, months been talking about it, and I remember just coming across LeVar and was, like, shocked that LeVar hadn’t come across my radar at all and, like, kinda sat and thought about it while I was, like, drinking my, like, third mai tai on vacation and was like, “You know, that’s actually crazy because I don’t think America even thinks of LeVar as a Black actor.”
Rembert Browne: He’s, like, an American institution. You know, Roots, like, Reading Rainbow, Star Trek, voice on Captain Planet, it’s an incredible run but, again, in large part because of Reading Rainbow, he’s, like, Mr. Rogers. He’s, like, this comfort blanket. And I just remember thinking like, “I feel like LeVar might have some, like, actual, like, fire in him.”
Gina Welch: Yeah. Laurence Fishburne knew that we were looking for someone for these scenes, and we thought our best chance of getting someone to play themselves would be to ask him to extend the offer. So I called Laurence and asked if he would call LeVar Burton. And he said, “Well, I know him, and I don’t think he’ll do it.” And I said, “Well, how do you know each other?” And he said, “Well, we met in the sauna. (LAUGH) And we often get together there to talk about race.” And I was like, “Why?”
Rembert Browne: I’ve never– (LAUGH) I’ve never– like, my– my jaw was, like, four stories–
Gina Welch: I was, like–
Rembert Browne: –under the earth–
Gina Welch: –why didn’t–
Rembert Browne: I couldn’t–
Gina Welch: –you tell us this a year ago. (LAUGHTER) And so– you know– he very generously offered to call LeVar.
Rembert Browne: Laurence and LeVar together was like– like, a life highlight (LAUGH) for me. Like, I– I was just like, “I can’t believe I’m seeing both of them together, like, in– in robes on the side chatting.” And they’ve just been around in each other’s world for so long and to see an excitement from two guys, just be like, “We get to, like, do something together.” It was beyond cool.
Laurence Fishburne (Doc Rivers): I knew it was fucked here. I just didn’t know I was inheriting a team of whiny little bitches. I guess that’s got somethin’ to do with Donald.
LeVar Burton (Himself): But you thought you could back and win a crown for the clown.
Laurence Fishburne (Doc Rivers): As a returning conqueror, yeah. And maybe I deluded myself a little bit.
Ramona Shelburne: Now that we’ve done a lotta Doc and LeVar and all that I wanna go to the white parties. It’s obviously in the trailer. It’s in episode one. It’s one of the only places we see all of the characters in one place. How did you go about incorporating Donald and Shelly’s white parties into the show and what were the important beats that you wanted to hit?
Gina Welch: I mean, just in terms of the character introductions, we wanted to see, you know, Donald holding Blake’s hand and sort of guiding him around the party. We wanted to see, you know, the players sort of being there under duress– and having to kind of tolerate all of these people who want a piece of them. I wanted to see Shelly micromanaging, you know, the tag in Marilyn’s dress– the broccoli–
Ramona Shelburne: Push the gin, honey. We over (LAUGH) ordered it–
Female Voice: Keep the energy up and push the drink. We over-ordered on the gin. Hang on, honey.
Ramona Shelburne: And the other line was, especially in episode one, where Donald says to Chris Paul, like, “There’s all these pretty girls here. Why aren’t you meeting with them?”
Ed O’Neill (Donald Sterling): Why aren’t you boys talking to all these beautiful girls?
Male Voice: ‘Cause I love my wife.
Gina Welch: That’s it–
Rembert Browne: Great– great Alphonse line.
Gina Welch: Oh, yeah–
Rembert Browne: I think. (LAUGH)
Gina Welch: I love that (UNINTEL)–
Ramona Shelburne: And it’s a real line. Like, when we adapt stuff from real life to– to the screen there’s a lotta stuff that you have to imagine. But this– this white party, it is all real.
Rembert Browne: Well, that’s, like– a thing I feel like is true about the whole show is, like– like, this shit happened. (LAUGH) There are so many things that feel like f– very fantastical where it’s like, “No, this is just like what 2014 was like.” Like, there’s a lotta wild stuff happening, and it felt like, you know, “Does everyone understand what TMZ is?”
Rembert Browne: Like, people were still tryin’ to kinda figure out what this, like, next internet age was gonna be like and, like, how quickly stuff spread and show found out. And, like, I think one of the things under this is, like, this was the beginning of, like, everyone finding out about everything immediately, which is why everything just snowballed so quickly.
Ramona Shelburne: Cleo, when I watch her now, is so perfect in this role, but I know it was a whole journey to find her and to cast her. Can you tell me sort of how you went about finding V. Stiviano?
Gina Welch: Yeah. Well, we had an amazing casting director, a woman name Alexa Fogel, who did the casting for The Wire. She did the casting for Ozark for Atlanta. I mean, she’s really an amazing sort of curator of great character actors. But she sent us– a lot of really, really great actresses for V.
Gina Welch: We needed someone who felt like she’d lived a life, who was a little tough. We needed someone who was a little strange. We needed someone who wasn’t too young because we didn’t want the age difference between Donald and V. to be the story. And we needed someone who could embody that unapologetic ambition without seeming shallow.
Gina Welch: And immediately once we had a conversation with her the depth of her feeling for V. and understanding of we’ll of the implications of, you know, V.’s biracial identity and what it meant for her and why she would in a relationship with someone who held racist points of view. I mean, she’s a deep well. And so then we were off to the races and she was just incredible–
Rembert Browne: Incredible.
Ramona Shelburne: Where did the idea for Deja come from?
Gina Welch: Well, we wanted V. to have, again, a confidant and someone who felt like she was a little bit out of the game but knew the Hollywood power game, you know, from having had her own career as a little bit of celebrity and so could sort of decode a lot of the things that V. was gonna be going through in the show but in the way that would make V. feel like, “Yeah, you’re talkin’ to me about an earlier time.”
Rembert Browne: Yeah, like, “I’m the evolved version of you,” (LAUGH) you know–
Gina Welch: Yeah. And so we just had fun– I mean, we’re– I don’t remember where the idea for her being VJ in spring break came from. It came up in the writers’ room–
Rembert Browne: It feels like a really– I’m not– I’m not shocked we got there. (LAUGH)
Gina Welch: Yeah. I mean, we were just–
Rembert Browne: Like–
Gina Welch: –thinking about someone who had kind of, like, a flash of celebrity and then had to figure out how to keep making money.
Rembert Browne: Someone that did MTV Spring Break for three years. Like–
Gina Welch: Someone who did MTV and didn’t get to keep the bikinis–
Rembert Browne: And didn’t get to keep the bikinis. (LAUGH) Like, it’s that type of person. Yeah.
Gina Welch: And we just loved her for her sense of humor. And something that was really important to the actress who came to play her, Yvonna, was– and she checked us on this. I mean, there was a time that she called me where she felt like Deja was being judgmental of V.
Gina Welch: And she’s like, “That’s not the character. The character is not judgmental.” And– I think that that’s one of the things that’s so great about her in the show is, like, she can make fun of V. She can make fun of the whole situation. But she is not judgmental. And I think that that’s part of what invites the audience to sort of sit in Deja’s point of view about it.
Ramona Shelburne: So we’ll s– fast forward a little bit to episode two where they’re in line at the drive-thru and they see the billboard up there. This is where you sorta first introduce who V. is obsessed with, some of the figures of 2014, right, Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian and all that. How did you figure that part out, you know, all this hero worship of– of some of the 2014 figures?
Gina Welch: I mean, the– that was really part of the period was the proliferation of women who were, quote/unquote, famous for being themselves. And, you know, one of the things that is distinct, both about Paris and about Kim, is that they come from money.
Gina Welch: And so they are sort of, like, the green light on the horizon. They are the thing that is sort of taunting a young woman like V., who’s like, “Why can’t I get there, to a place of financial security, independence, autonomy, building my own brand?” Well, you can’t get there because of capitalism (LAUGH)–
Rembert Browne: Yeah, it’s just, like, because America, like–
Gina Welch: Yeah. And so we really wanted to make sure that that imagery was all around V. in a way that felt, like, very tempting and frustrating for her–
Rembert Browne: Yeah. It’s, like, you know, through one lens it’s, like, gives her some motivation, but I found it to be also kinda, like, haunting.
Gina Welch: Haunting, yeah–
Rembert Browne: It’s just, like, this is that thing that you, like– somewhere in your head you’re like, “I don’t know how I get there.” But, you know, as a newer resident of Los Angeles it’s, like, the– the ability to convince yourself that anything is possible and nothing–
Gina Welch: Well, and also–
Rembert Browne: –can stand in your way–
Gina Welch: –both Kim and Paris were famous for tapes.
Rembert Browne: For tapes. It’s– it’s a way– way to get out there.
Ramona Shelburne: One of the interesting stylistic choices that we see in the show, and we see it pretty early on, is the internet becoming this character.
Female Voice: Nobody ever passed language arts dicking around on Snapchat.
Ramona Shelburne: It’s not just a scroll. If you freeze-frame– I had fun freeze-framing and– and seeing what was on there ’cause it moves pretty quickly so it’s fun and it’s– as a viewer to watch it. Where did you come up with this idea and how did you execute it?
Gina Welch: Well, once we got the show into post-production what we felt was a missing character, and that was the character of the internet. And part of the reason it was important to figure out how to get that on screen is that the tape is not released until the end of the second episode.
Gina Welch: And you need to have the sense that the story is gonna get big. You need to have a sense that something is coming. And because, you know, the sort of strains of storytelling in the first two episodes are not– they haven’t really come together– we needed some connective tissue. And we couldn’t fuckin’ figure it out. I mean, there was a month in post-production where it was like, “Is it voiceover? Is it this? Is it that?” And so– on a Friday I went to Huntington Gardens and took mushrooms.
Ramona Shelburne: Oh, it’s–
Gina Welch: And–
Ramona Shelburne: –a lovely place–
Gina Welch: –it was not a very productive day.
Rembert Browne: You needed it.
Gina Welch: I needed it.
Rembert Browne: You needed it–
Gina Welch: I needed to, quote/unquote, take off my blazer and get vulnerable, (LAUGHTER) which is– which was what I did–
Ramona Shelburne: Did you go to the tea room afterwards? (LAUGH)
Gina Welch: No, no. I had to– I had to go home. I had to go home. And then, you know, I di– I didn’t figure it out, was very frustrated with myself– for not figuring it out and then came into post-production the next Monday and– our editor, Susana Benaim, was showing– and she’s just so imaginative and endlessly creative.
Gina Welch: She tried everything. She was showing us this split-screen. You know, “Like, well, what if we can see Doc on screen at the same time as we see V., a split-screen?” And I was like, “Well, the internet isn’t boxes. It scrolls.” And I started moving my hand the way that you do when you’re scrolling your phone.
Gina Welch: And I was like, “Oh, shit.” (LAUGH) And suddenly having this– the– these scrolling elements in the show started to bring in that sort of malicious, juvenile, cute energy of the internet that chews things up and spits them out as fast as can be that felt like it was really adding the right dynamic and telling us that, while the internet is moving at the speed of the scrolls, our characters are moving at the speed of human beings.
Gina Welch: And– and that to me felt like a critical element for the story, especially because of how quickly events moved over the course of that week when the tape came out. So what you’ll see in scrolls is obviously we’re sort of around the world of the internet in the first two episodes with, like, Paris Hilton and Doge. And then as– the internet becomes monoculture, right? It’s, like, the story takes over the internet for a minute and then the internet moves on. And so what happens to these characters once the internet moves on?
Ramona Shelburne: Okay. I wanna talk to you about the tapes themselves.
Ed O’Neill (Donald Sterling): Why would you do that? Are you stupid of something? You wanna broadcast to the world that you walk around with a man like that?
Cleopatra Coleman (V. Stiviano): Honey, I’m sorry.
Ed O’Neill (Donald Sterling): I’m sorry too.
Cleopatra Coleman (V. Stiviano): I wish I could change the color of my skin.
Ed O’Neill (Donald Sterling): No– that’s not the issue. The issue is we don’t have to broadcast everything–
Cleopatra Coleman (V. Stiviano): I’m not broadcasting anything.
Ed O’Neill (Donald Sterling): Then why are you taking pictures with minorities? Why–
Cleopatra Coleman (V. Stiviano): What’s wrong with minorities? What’s wrong with Black people?
Ramona Shelburne: What was it like shooting the scene? And how did you piece it together from real audio?
Gina Welch: Well, so we had the transcripts– and there’s two tapes. You know, it’s a total of about 15 minutes of audio. And we went through a huge battle to keep the bulk of the conversation out of the pilot. There were a lotta people who wanted it in the pilot, and we felt very, very strongly in the writers’ room that that was not– it was like– it was, like, one of many, many conversations like that.
Gina Welch: And it was not something that had value until it was, quote/unquote, the tape. And so we really wanted to play it in episode two, where you understand th– the size of its impact. And we shot that scene I think in one of our first days shooting with– with Cleo and Ed. It was one of the–
Rembert Browne: Super early, yeah–
Gina Welch: Maybe the second or third day we were shooting with them. And we wanted them to be word perfect because everything that is in that scene is from the tape. You know, we did some sort of editing and some transposition, but every word is from the tape.
Gina Welch: It was really hard– because, you know, we were getting it from so many angles and because it was such an intense scene. But once we saw them doing the scene together it was so scary good that I cried because I felt like seeing Cleo’s V. and the ways in which you feel her going in and out of performance, like, in and out of, “I know I’m taping you,” in and out of, “I’m reacting to what you’re saying and I’m upset,” was so dynamic. And I felt like looking at Ed I couldn’t see Ed anymore. I saw Donald. I was overwhelmed. I thought it was so incredible. I just think the two of them in that scene are outta control good.
Rembert Browne: Yeah. I knew that it was going well ’cause I was like, “Oh, like”– even though I knew the whole transcript I’m like, “Damn, like, is this V. Being recorded? Is this how V. actually feels? Like, is she saying something so it gets picked up on the audio kind of as an out?” Like, there’s so many things, but she has to be so many different people in this one conversation that I– it was very cool to watch them kind of become these characters so early on.
Ramona Shelburne: In my reporting on the story and in talking to f– Clipper players from over the decades, they all had this very similar story of Donald Sterling coming in their locker room, violating the sanctity of the locker room, and ogling them in a way that was extremely dehumanizing, awkward, uncomfortable. And usually he brought along some friends.
Ed O’Neill (Donald Sterling): Hello, boys. Havin’ fun?
Male Voice: Oh, God–
Ed O’Neill (Donald Sterling): I know we are because you’re winners.
Male Voice: Who the fuck are these people–
Male Voice (00:26:47) [0.49 sec.]: They’re assholes–
Ed O’Neill (Donald Sterling): Come– come say hi. (LAUGH)
Cleopatra Coleman (V. Stiviano): I’ll just wait here.
Ed O’Neill (Donald Sterling): What, you never snuck into the little boys’ room before? They don’t mind. It’s a celebration.
Ramona Shelburne: Everyone in this scene seems to get that, including V. Like, she walks in the green dress (which is so loud and so ostentatious), and even she kind of says, “Wait, should we go in here?”
Gina Welch: Because she understands the point of view of the players. So that’s what you feel from her is she knows what it feels to be objectified in that way.
Rembert Browne: And she’s, like, found herself on the wrong side of it.
Gina Welch: Donald’s asking her to speak as if she’s on his side, which puts her in an impossible situation.
Rembert Browne: Yeah, even, like, the fan– like, the people that come in, there’s just this feeling like, “I paid tickets,” or, “I know someone high up at this place. Like, I have full reign over this place, these people. I can do– whatever I want.” And, you know, when we shot that I remember being just, like, taken aback by how good Ed was.
Rembert Browne: ‘Cause it requires, like– a very specific type of, like, nastiness. ‘Cause he has a smile on his face for most of it. You know, he’s like, “Aren’t I giving you all these compliments through all this, you know, racism that I’m not clocking?” And, you know, going into that scene I remember, like, kind of sitting watching it, knowing that it needed to be a certain type of uncomfortable.
Rembert Browne: And, you know, just like what Ed’s doin’ with his hands, how close he is. Like, there’s all these, like, little things that, you know, not in the locker room example but I do think, like, I have felt that before in– in other arenas. I know people who have kind of felt like, “I’m pitching to these donors and they can talk to me however they want.”
Rembert Browne: There’s– there’s, like– a kinda toxic cycle that I do feel like really came alive in that scene. But I thought Ed as Donald there was, like, really, like– he understood what Donald needed to be in that scene in a really incredible way to me.
Gina Welch: Yeah. But one of the things that I think just underscores how extreme your obliviousness and your sort of sense of entitlement has to be to violate that space is that the first time we shot that scene I had been vague about the blocking, you know, and had not sort of made the dialogue quite pointed.
Gina Welch: And so when we looked at the scene in the dailies the violation was not clear. And it was because I think Ed and Cleo and Kelly and the background players who came in felt like they were violating a private space. And because the script wasn’t telling them what to do they didn’t really go in, they didn’t really touch anybody.
Gina Welch: And we looked at it in the cut and knew that we had to reshoot the scene and gave very, very specific instructions to our background actors and really pushed the dialogue. And so we reshot the scene and I remember when we reshot it we were all sitting in that locker room together and I could barely watch it because it was so uncomfortable–
Rembert Browne: It was tough. I mean, it was really painful. And I went up to Sheldon at Craft Services, you know, while they were sorta turning the camera around (Sheldon plays DeAndre Jordan), and I was like, “Are you okay?” (LAUGHTER) And he looked at me, he was like, you know, like, getting a fuckin’ peanut butter sandwich or whatever, he looked at me and he was like, “Yeah, we’re acting, like, dummy. You know, this is like”–
Rembert Browne: But it– it was one of those scenes, like, afterwards it’s like, “Everyone just, like, walk away (LAUGH) and just, like– let’s all take 15 and just, like, ugh.”
Gina Welch: It was– yeah. And that’s, you know– I– I think we really got it.
Ramona Shelburne: Okay. They have a lightning round for us. These are short answers, no more than a sentence or phrase, okay–
Gina Welch: Oh, God.
Rembert Browne: Great–
Ramona Shelburne: So I will start. (LAUGHTER) I’ll go to Gina, then I’ll go–
Rembert Browne: Let’s go–
Ramona Shelburne: –to–
Gina Welch: Like, now I’m really sweating.
Ramona Shelburne: No, it’s not that hard. Don’t worry. Fashion from the 2010s that you hope doesn’t come back.
Gina Welch: Feather earrings.
Rembert Browne: Like, big shorts. (LAUGH) I like–
Ramona Shelburne: What’s wrong with big shorts–
Rembert Browne: You know, I like–
Ramona Shelburne: I like big shorts–
Rembert Browne: –to show some thigh, you know. Well, you know, this was– we were coming out of the super-long short era. It was, like–
Gina Welch: Are you talking about, like, a culotte–
Rembert Browne: No, I’m–
Gina Welch: –or, like–
Rembert Browne: –talking about, like, the basketball jerseys.
Gina Welch: Oh, okay–
Rembert Browne: I’m talking– I’m talking about –the– the big jersey era. (LAUGH)
Gina Welch: You’re not talking about women’s fashion–
Rembert Browne: No, I’m talking (LAUGH) about–
Ramona Shelburne: Favorite snack while you’re working?
Gina Welch: Pop corn. And I’ll say my pop corn– obsession was, like, fully unleashed when I read an article about Steph Curry eating trash bags of pop corn. I said, “If it’s okay for him, it’s okay for me.”
Rembert Browne: Yeah. Just Saran-wrapped peanut butter and jelly, like, three, four times.
Ramona Shelburne: Very NBA.
Rembert Browne: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ramona Shelburne: Everybody loves peanut butter and jelly — in the NBA.
Rembert Browne: Good on the stomach.
Ramona Shelburne: Something you’re super randomly good at. What is your super power?
Rembert Browne: I’m really good– I learned this in LA. I’m really good at driving for 10, 20 minutes and then someone’s like, “How do you get there,” and I have no idea what I just did. Like, it’s a talent. Like, I just– I just don’t really know where I am.
Gina Welch: I’m handy.
Ramona Shelburne: Really?
Gina Welch: Uh-huh (AFFIRM).
Ramona Shelburne: Like, you can put together an IKEA–
Gina Welch: Don’t seem so surprised. I’m handy–
Ramona Shelburne: No, that’s– that’s actually– (LAUGH) that’s impressive.
Rembert Browne: That’s great. Gina and I don’t live far from each other–
Gina Welch: My sister used to call me Handy Andy. Yeah. (LAUGH)
Rembert Browne: Handy Andy. (LAUGHTER)
Ramona Shelburne: I’m fairly handy myself. Like, I can put together an IKEA bookcase.
Rembert Browne: Handy Andy.
Ramona Shelburne: I just prefer not to now. (LAUGH) What’s your favorite basketball team?
Gina Welch: Clippers.
Rembert Browne: The Atlanta Hawks. I’m from Atlanta.
Ramona Shelburne: Oh, okay. (LAUGH) All right. I was like, “That’s, like, super random.” (LAUGHTER) All right. Craziest behind-the-scenes moment.
Gina Welch: When we were shooting V. and Deja in the drive-thru we were posted up at that restaurant. We were– I was writing inside. And suddenly– people started running inside the restaurant– from the parking lot because a drunk driver came down the street, rammed into a parked car, reversed their car, rammed into another one, and they were basically going back and forth between parked cars. And the cops who were, you know, security on our production surrounded the car to try to get the driver under control. And– they ended up wrestling the guy outta the car, and he was arrested.
Rembert Browne: My favorite story is as we were wrapping– towards, like, that last week it was beginning to be like, “Let’s give hugs, like, high-five, like, we actually made it through.” And one– member of our cast, who I will not name– I became, like– I– I just, like, very in– very into him. And at the end he, like, waved me over and was like, “I got a present for you.” I was like, “Oh, that’s so nice. Like, I– like, I– I can’t believe any of these actors actually know my name.” And his thank you gift to me was he just gave me a buncha weed. (LAUGHTER) And I was like, “That’s awesome. I love you.” It’s good– good energy. Yeah.
Gina Welch: That’s amazing.
Rembert Browne: I was like, “Yeah.” I don’t know what I was expecting– but I guess we did bond. I– I appreciate that.
Ramona Shelburne: Gina, Rembert, thank you so much for all your time, your thoughts–
Rembert Browne: Of course–
Ramona Shelburne: –your reflections.
Rembert Browne: Thank you.
Gina Welch: Thank you, Ramona.
Narrator: This episode was hosted by Ramona Shelburne and produced by Meghan Coyle. Our associate producer is Gus Navarro. Our line producer is Cath Sankey. Sound design by Ryan Ross Smith and original music by Hannis Brown. Preeti Varathan is our head of audio. Our head of development is Kati Fernandez. Our head of talent relations is Chantre Camack. Our executive producers for 30 for 30 and ESPN Films are Marsha Cooke, Brian Lockhart, Burke Magnus, and Heather Anderson. Our ESPN audio team includes Megan Judge and Devon McGowan. Special thanks to Roslyn Bibby at FX and Greg Bergman at ESPN LA Radio. As always, thank you for listening. Episodes of Let’s Talk Clipped drop every Tuesday until July 2nd.
