NICOLE TEENY:  So Thursday in the car grocery shopping with Mariel–

FEMALE SPEAKER (AUTOMATED):  In a quarter mile use the left two lanes to turn left onto the Washington 16 West ramp to Bremerton.

NICOLE TEENY:  I’m sitting in the passenger seat of a car next to Mariel. We’ve been mostly staying in lately since my epilepsy is so unstable. But we’ve decided to venture out to run some errands just to see how it goes. As Mariel driving, a wave of exhaustion pours over me. My body goes limp. I can feel an aura coming on.

MZ HORSE:  Are you feeling okay?

NICOLE TEENY:  I wanna tell her I’m terrified, but I can’t move my mouth to talk. (BREATHING) My awareness is lost in a fog, fog, fog. (NOISE) Fog and sand and dust swallow me and spit me back out. I’m half-conscious and delirious and my mind wanders back to another desert vision. I hear a rumble. (BREATHING) The stampede is not far off. I’m exhausted from constantly being trampled.

MZ HORSE:  Another is coming.

NICOLE TEENY:  It’s the voice from the heard. I turn and look behind me. Against an orange haze is a dark silhouette. It’s a horse. She has taken form, a clear enemy.

MZ HORSE:  Follow me if you want to survive.

NICOLE TEENY:  Could this be a trick?

MZ HORSE:  You cannot go back to who you were.

NICOLE TEENY:  She’s wrong. I just need to find my way back home, back to the person that I used to be when I felt in control of my body and the spirits inside of me. The ground quivers again like the seizures I know all too well. I fall. (COUGH) Then a tsunami of dust unfurls like a scroll towards me. The stampede is close. I feel helpless, but I’m not ready to die.

MZ HORSE:  This way.

NICOLE TEENY:  She turns and starts to gallop towards the canyons. I need to make a choice. (COUGH) The ground seizes again and I can’t see past the haze. (BREATHING) My body jolts once, twice, then releases. It’s over. The haze starts to clear.

MARIEL:  Are you feelin’ okay? I noticed that your speech slowed down a tiny bit.

NICOLE TEENY:  I’m back in the car in the real world. Mariel’s pulled over. I’m trying to tell her about the vision, the place that I’ve just been, and that mysterious horse. But it’s still a few more minutes till I come out of the aura. You know, this is, like, the second time today? I just f– I feel it, like, kinda rising up like I’m gonna have another thing.

MARIEL:  Just dress (UNINTEL).

NICOLE TEENY:  Mariel gives my hand a little squeeze. We’ve been together for six months. I’ve lost count of how many auras she’s seen me have. They can happen as often as a couple times a day or once a week. It’ll take me another 20 minutes to feel normal again, but sometimes it can take hours.

NICOLE TEENY:  Things went from zero to 100 so quickly. Sometimes I think I could die at any minute. This is not how I wanna live. I miss my independence. How do I run back to her, to the person I used to be? I think back to that mysterious horse in my vision.

MZ HORSE:  Follow me.

NICOLE TEENY:  I need to make a choice.

NICOLE TEENY:  No, I need to get away from all of these horses, to defeat them, to tame them, to outrun them. I decide right then and there to double down on this dream to race a horse in real life. Listen, I am not naïve enough to think that outrunning a horse is going to stop the seizures.

NICOLE TEENY:  There is no cure for epilepsy. But I crave something solid that I can conquer, something I can actually beat, like a real horse. So how do I make this dream a reality? How do I outrun a horse? I need the know my competitor, their strengths and their weaknesses.

NICOLE TEENY:  And also where do I even find a horse to race? I’m Nicole Teeny, and this is GIRL v. HORSE , Episode Two: Ride or Die. If I want to race a horse, I need to devise a strategy. So I go back to the theory that kicked off this whole thing, the endurance running hypothesis, and head to the lab of one of its authors. (SPOOKY SOUNDS)

DR. DANIEL LIEBERMAN:  We have, you know, all kinds of gizmos and computers and devices that we can use to measure how people are using their bodies when they’re being physically active. It’s a treadmill that’s run by a computer, infrared cameras, electromyography, respirometry so we can measure how much oxygen somebody’s–

NICOLE TEENY:  Dr. Daniel Lieberman is the paleoanthropologist who developed the hypothesis, along with his colleague, Dr. Dennis Bramble. His lab looks like Frankenstein’s Monster’s gym. While some academics have contested it, the endurance running hypothesis has gotten a lot of attention and support.

NICOLE TEENY:  It made its debut in a paper titled, Endurance Running and the Evolution of Homo, which resonated with me, speaking as both an endurance runner and a proud homo. I decide to get right into it. I ask him what the science tells us about endurance running and how it can help me race a horse.

DR. DANIEL LIEBERMAN:  Well, first of all, the whole idea of a race between humans and horses is pretty preposterous. So, we didn’t evolve to race horses. We evolved to hunt them.

NICOLE TEENY:  Damn. Hot take, Dr. Lieberman. But Dr. Lieberman says, “Yeah, endurance running is all about hunting big animals, not owning them in a 5K. And this hunting had a very specific reason.

DR. DANIEL LIEBERMAN:  Brains. Brains are expensive, and brains have to be fed constantly.

NICOLE TEENY:  Our brain, with its size and complexity, is one of the main things that sets us apart from other animals. Now, according to the hypothesis, we needed to start hunting in order to feed those large, expensive brains. But our ancestors didn’t have sophisticated weapons. They didn’t even have spearheads.

DR. DANIEL LIEBERMAN:  Just, like, sharpened sticks and– and rocks and– and trust me, you do not wanna try to kill most animals with just a sharpened stick. If you wanna be a carnivore, you better be able to run. You pick an animal, the bigger the better, and you chase it in the heat.

NICOLE TEENY:  This kind of hunting is called persistence hunting. You basically wear down your prey to the point of exhaustion. And to do that, you gotta be out there runnin’ for a long time in order for it to work. So Dr. Lieberman says over millions of years our bodies evolved these super powers to help us go the distance, like our short toes, our sizable rear ends, head-stabilizing shoulders, and enlarged hearts. But our biggest adaptation of all? Sweat.

DR. DANIEL LIEBERMAN:  Sweat. We are the world’s best sweaters. No animal can sweat as well as human beings.

NICOLE TEENY:  Sweating is something that I can do. There aren’t many other animals that can sweat, or at least not very well. But a major exception? None other than the horse. (WHINNY) However, the horse is still at a disadvantage because even though they do sweat, their sweat is not as effective as ours.

NICOLE TEENY:  It’s thick and full of protein. Our sweat, on the other hand, evaporates easily. This helps us control our body temperature so we don’t overheat and cook our organs from the inside out. Most animals release heat in other ways. Dogs pant. Rhinos take a mud bath. Vultures poop on their legs, which, hey, has happened to a marathoner or two. No shame.

DR. DANIEL LIEBERMAN:  So no animal really (that we know of), is quite as effective at dumping heat in long-term sustained physical activity as a human being.

NICOLE TEENY:  When other animals have to stop to cool down, we’ve got an edge. We can keep running. And that is how we catch them. As it turns out, this kind of hunting is still going on today. (CLICK) Kunta Oma (PH) is an expert persistence hunter. He lives in the Naye Naye Conservancy in Namibia. Dom Debay (PH) translates. I wanted to talk to him because I wanted to hear from someone who actually does this, someone who can give me some on-the-ground tips.

TRANSLATOR (KUNTA OMA):  As I start I have to look out for– tracks, animal tracks. Whenever I found a kudu or an animal as it start running I used to run after.

NICOLE TEENY: Kunta hunts kudu, a giant antelope with spirally horns. Kudu, and other four-legged animals, can out-sprint even the world’s fastest runners. The Flo-Jos, Jesse Owens, and Usain Bolts of the world cannot hold a candle. But that’s okay because this is a tortoise and hare situation. And hunters like (CLICK) Kunta are playing the long game.

TRANSLATOR (KUNTA OMA):  It not means that you have to run faster like an animal. You need to run slower and when you see the speed of the animal getting slower it means that they’re getting weaker.

NICOLE TEENY:  Eventually the animal will need to break and stop in the shade, and that is where (CLICK) Kunta says you keep going. The animal will take breaks but (CLICK) Kunta is relentless. He maintains something like a 10-minute mile pace (nothing wild, just consistent), pushing the animal, trying to tire it out until it overheats. Then eventually–

TRANSLATOR (KUNTA OMA):  You need to easily fall down, and from there you can get the spear and kill.

NICOLE TEENY:  It’s a literal race to the death. The humans run for food to stay alive, while the animal sprints in desperation to save its life. For both, survival is at stake. These chases can last up to eight hours. But most persistence hunters catch up to their prey within three to five hours.

NICOLE TEENY:  Curiously, that’s about how long it takes most people to complete a marathon, including me. So this is promising. Maybe outlasting a four-legged opponent is something I can actually do. And Dr. Lieberman told me one more thing that was encouraging.

DR. DANIEL LIEBERMAN:  When people ran long distances in the past they did it to get dinner, right? You only have to beat one horse to show that humans can outrun (SLUR) horses.

MZ HORSE:  Just one horse.

NICOLE TEENY:  When I learn all this it sends shivers down my spine. Not only can I outrun a horse, but my body was actually built for this kinda thing, just by being human. We are made to endure. And endurance is what I need right now. I close my eyes and I imagine running after wild horses, tracking a goal, harnessing my endurance. I want to use my body instead of letting it use me. To maximize my chances of beating a horse Dr. Lieberman says there are two additional things that I should keep in mind.

DR. DANIEL LIEBERMAN:  If you wanna increase your odds of beating a horse in a race, the longer it is and the hotter it is the more likely you are gonna overcome the horses. That is, of course, if you’re a reasonably trained runner who can run long distances and– and handle the heat.

NICOLE TEENY:  Okay. So the race has to be long, it has to be hot, and I need to train. I need to start running again. I need to find a way back in the saddle, so to speak. Because right now I’m still living in the shadow of epilepsy. I feel trampled by the auras, the side effects of the meds, and the hypervigilance over every little thing.

NICOLE TEENY:  Collectively, it’s been so disruptive. I’ve had to put work on hold, cancel parties, skip hangouts, and bow out of meetings. I’m living in a constant state of fear. Who am I? I need to return to the person I used to be. I need to run. But I still can’t really be a lone.

NICOLE TEENY:  A few generous friends have offered to run with me, but I live a ways out and I can’t build a whole running routine out of favors. How do I adapt? That’s when Mariel comes up with a beautifully simple yet game-changing idea. (BELLS)

MARIEL So I could bike next to you on your runs and your longer runs. We can spend time together. You won’t have to run alone.

NICOLE TEENY:  We’re living together at this point. And the next time we go out Mariel is on the bike and I’m next to her running. Who am I? The space between the pavement and my feet answers me. I’ve returned. With each run my dream of outrunning a horse is starting to shift from fantasy to an actual reality. Now, I just need to figure out how the heck am I going to find a horse to race?

AUNT NE:  Going on a wild horse hunt. I ain’t scared. Got my tennis shoes on.

NICOLE TEENY:  I’m in Arizona by the Salt River, close to where my Aunt Ne lives. It’s an area known for herds of wild horses. This is one of my first big trips on my own since the seizures started, but I feel safe with her. (CLICK) Kunta hunts wild kudu, and in my visions the horses are also wild. So I wanna see if this would be a good place for an eventual showdown. And if it is, I need to figure out how to make this work. But I’m having trouble even finding the horses. Yeah, we’ve been horse hunting for six hours.

AUNT NE:  Pretty much.

NICOLE TEENY:  Let’s manifest some horses, Aunt Ne.

AUNT NE:  Ring. (LAUGHTER)

NICOLE TEENY:  We’re ready to give up when a local hiker passes us and suggests a section near the river. We scoot through into a little cove in the bushes. That’s when I see them wading in the water.

AUNT NE:  There they are. Right there–

NICOLE TEENY:  You– oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh–

AUNT NE:  So exciting.

NICOLE TEENY:  Oh, my gosh. There’s so many of them. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, (INAUDIBLE). There are at least 15 of these giant beasts. They’ve got scruffy hair and a give-no-fucks attitude. I really wanna run with them. I’m wearing my running shoes. I figured I’d get in a little sprint to suss out if I can even get a horse to run with me. Do I go parallel? Do I run at them? I have no idea what I’m doing.

AUNT NE:  This one keeps wandering towards us.

NICOLE TEENY:  One horse out in front is staring me down, slowly walking towards me. The rest of the herd follow behind in a battle line. What is going–

AUNT NE:  They’re crossing the river. I gotta get a picture of this.

NICOLE TEENY:  I’m beginning to think this might not be such a great idea. We turn to walk out of the cove, but another horse appears right behind us, blocking the exit. We’re trapped. (CLICK) Kunta described chasing the animal, but I feel like these horses are about to run me down. They’re ginormous. I’m afraid to run next to them though because, like–

AUNT NE:  They’re unpredictable.

NICOLE TEENY:  They’re totally unpredictable–

AUNT NE:  They’re wild.

NICOLE TEENY:  We shove ourselves up against the thorny bushes and try to get out of the way. The horse in front thunders past, his herd swarms behind, just ten feet away. I’m realizing a new fear. These horses could trample me here in the real world just like the horse spirits do in my visions. Haven’t I had enough near-death experiences?

NICOLE TEENY:  There is no way in hell I’m going to challenge these horses. It’s not only logistically impossible, but this is not how I wanna go down. I need horses that can be at least somewhat directed. There has to be a way. I can’t be the only person who’s tried racing against a horse.

DAVY CROCKETT:  Over the– the last couple of centuries there were many of these man versus horse races.

NICOLE TEENY:  That’s running historian and human versus horse race expert, Davy Crockett.

DAVY CROCKETT:  People tend to remember that name for some reason. (LAUGH)

NICOLE TEENY:  Is Davy Crockett your real name?

DAVY CROCKETT:  It is. David Crockett. I even named my first son– Davy Crockett.

NICOLE TEENY:  I digress, Davy confirms, no, I am not the only one. But before horses even entered the picture, Davy traces human versus horse races to another sport from the 1700s. It was called pedestrianism.

NICOLE TEENY:  People raced each other to see who could go the farthest, usually just around and around a track. Most of these races lasted up to six days. And these races started popping up all over the place. The sport got so big that they were held at New York City’s iconic Madison Square Garden. Before the Super Bowl or the World Cup, these races were the spectator sport to watch. (CROWD NOISE) And at one race–

DAVY CROCKETT:  The people outside actually broke down the doors to (LAUGH) get in and they were met by policemen who– who used clubs to beat them over the heads and get them out.

NICOLE TEENY:  That same race a balcony collapsed and dozens of people were hospitalized.

DAVY CROCKETT:  But the race went on. They (LAUGH) didn’t stop the race.

NICOLE TEENY:  Because like many big sports, there was money on the line.

DAVY CROCKETT:  Legal wagering was– taking place. Millions of dollars (in our value), would change hands during a single race. The motivation to even get involved was to get fame and fortune.

NICOLE TEENY:  And these weren’t your typical road races. These were shows, often at the expense of the humans involved.

DAVY CROCKETT:  Trainers would use pretty devious ways to keep their runners going, including whipping them with pins to wake them up. And there were some deaths after these races.

NICOLE TEENY:  After a while the runners needed a new challenge to keep the fans entertained and the money flowing. And that’s where the horses come in. (WHINNY)

DAVY CROCKETT:  Somebody starts boasting that they could do this or that against a horse, and people say, “Well, put your money where your mouth is. (LAUGH) Let’s make a bet.”

NICOLE TEENY:  And these horses weren’t just running every which way like the wild ones I saw with my aunt. These horses had riders to direct them along the course. These races were a big deal. And just as predicted by the endurance running hypothesis, the runners sometimes outran the horses.

NICOLE TEENY:  But those wins came at a cost. Horses even died. During one race in the 1800s the local Humane Society had to intervene, and several men were arrested for animal cruelty. Once again, death and survival were tied together as humans chased after their four-legged foes. Even when the pedestrianism fad faded, human versus horse races continued into the 1900s, and the most notable and famous of all human versus horse races happened in 1936. (MOVIE REEL SOUND)

BROADCASTER:  Jesse Owens, the evident streak of Olympic Games, celebrates turning professional by racing against a horse. (CHEERING)

NICOLE TEENY:  It was the day after Christmas when Jesse Owens, one of the greatest runners in history, raced a horse. People went berserk, and the race was covered around the world. Jesse was fresh off competing in the Olympics in Hitler’s Germany. As a Black American, his victory sent a message to the world.

BROADCASTER:  In the hundred meter the world’s most superb runner makes the others look as if they’re walking as he wins the final and equals the world’s record time. This may well be the athletic performances of the century.

NICOLE TEENY:  But despite his triumphs, Jesse faced an incredible amount of discrimination back in the United States. He wasn’t invited to the White House or given the same level of financial support as other athletes. He took on the race against a horse because he didn’t have a lot of other opportunities to make money off his accomplishments.

NICOLE TEENY:  When asked about running against a horse, Owens responded, quote, “People said it was degrading for an Olympic champion to run against a horse. But what was I supposed to do? I had four gold medals, but you can’t eat four gold medals.” The race against horses continued. People couldn’t get enough, so much so that once the 1950s came around one racer even appeared on the very popular game show called To Tell The Truth.

GAME SHOW HOST:  All right, panel, Ido Romanoli (PH) ran in the longest race 157 miles. There were seven runners competing in the race. Three of them were men and the other four were horses.

GAME SHOW CONTESTANT:  Do the horses have to assume a kneeling starting position? (LAUGHTER)

GAME SHOW HOST:  The answer is nay, nay. (GROANS)

NICOLE TEENY:  Learning all of this made me think about how I wanted to approach my own race. Okay. So it needs to be a long distance. It needs to be in the heat. All participants should be adequately trained. And the horses should take breaks. And lastly, absolutely no one, horse nor I, should die in the process. And then Davy tells me–

DAVY CROCKETT:  There’s a modern race, man against horse, near Prescott, Arizona that started in 1983. I believe that race is still held today.

NICOLE TEENY:  You’re kidding me. This exists today? Just a few clicks on my lappidy-top and voila, I’m in? So despite the name, I learn that Man Against Horse is actually open to all genders. The Man in the title refers to one specific man, Gheral Brownlow.

NICOLE TEENY:  He was the first to compete in the race. But Gheral Against Horse doesn’t quite have the same ring to it. So Man Against Horse is goin’ strong. Still though, it’s the 21st century. Come on. But their race is coming up. And, while I’m in no position to compete, I can’t pass on the chance to scope it out. Maybe this could eventually be my race. So I hop on a plane headed to Arizona to find out. (BACKGROUND VOICES)

MALE SPEAKER:  You wanna check in?

MALE SPEAKER :  Please. (WHINNY)

FEMALE SPEAKER:  Okay. And what’s your first name, please?

PETER:  Peter.

NICOLE TEENY:  It’s 5:00 a.m. Just outside of Prescott, Arizona runners are checking in and stretching in a small corner of a giant pasture. Close by is horse camp, (BEEPS) which you would definitely know by the strong smell of hay and, well, you know. (BUZZING) As dawn breaks, the mountains come into focus against a backdrop of stars. A light tower, kinda like the kind you’d see in a football stadium, illuminates the entire base camp, a makeshift village of RVs, tents, and horse trailers.

MALE SPEAKER:  You guys want numbers?

MALE SPEAKER:  Yes.

MALE SPEAKER:  We have 503 as a scratch. (INAUDIBLE) scratch–

NICOLE TEENY:  I look around taking it all in, trying to imagine myself as one of the competitors. The race has a down-to-earth vibe. There aren’t any big brand endorsements or TV cameras. The race’s official timer is a wall clock still inside of its cardboard packaging.

NICOLE TEENY:  But with nearly 100 runners, 50 horses, pus their riders, and all the volunteers, the vets, and supporters, it’s still quite the production. The Man Against Horse Race might seem quirky at first glance, but these competitors are serious. (BACKGROUND VOICES)

NICOLE TEENY:  Near the start all the runners and horses are starting to file in. They’re all about to do the same 50-mile loop in the mountains. They’re preparing for the long haul. Now, I’ve done a marathon before, and (just like this race), it was on a trail.

NICOLE TEENY:  So this is pretty familiar. But marathons are 26.2 miles, which explains all those stickers that you see on the backs of Subarus. But this race is almost twice that length, categorizing it as an ultramarathon. And an ultramarathon is just a fancy way of saying anything longer than the marathon. (BEEPS)

NICOLE TEENY:  So this definitely checks off the distance requirement to test the endurance running hypothesis, not to mention the thrill of pushing my body to that limit has always excited me. By now the runners bibs are pinned on, and most sport goofy cargo vests stuffed with snacks, water flasks, and things that they’ll need for the hours ahead. The vibe is buzzing with pre-race nerves and runners tryin’ to get into the zone. I’m hoping I can learn something here. So I ask one runner what his strategy is.

PETER MORITMER:  Any time you do 50 miles you gotta just hold back. You’ll catch ’em on the– the downhills generally, and the uphills, they’ll– they’ll pass ya. So it’s good– good give and take.

NICOLE TEENY:  I mentally file the tip away. After he walks away somebody taps me on the shoulder and asks, “Do you know who that guy was?” It turns out he’s Peter Mortimer, the guy who won one of the most notorious 100-mile races aptly called The Hurt 100. I’m surprised to find a pro like him here. Also here, wearing a bright orange cap and a big smile, is another winning machine, Catlow Shipek.

CATLOW SHIPEK:  I try not to think too much about it, tryin’ to just have fun with it.

NICOLE TEENY:  Even though he keeps it low-key, he is anything but. He’s one of the top ultramarathoners in the country. And the horses and riders competing aren’t lookin’ so bad either, including Ellen’s horse Scarlet, a muscular white mare with neatly braided hair.

FEMALE SPEAKER:  Scarlet’s probably more ready than I am. She’s– she just finished a 50 a couple weeks ago. So she’s ready.

NICOLE TEENY:  I talked to them at a distance. After my wild horse encounter with Aunt Ne and nearly getting run over, I’m not quite ready to get too close. For Scarlet and many of these horses, this isn’t their first rodeo. Horses have their own version of ultramarathons. They’re called endurance rides. And the horse part of Man Against Horse is actually an officially sanctioned endurance ride.

MALE SPEAKER:  The majority of rides are 50 miles. And when you’re ridin’ your horse it’s like training for an ultramarathon. You do three-milers. You do five-milers. You get up to 20. You gotta put the time in.

NICOLE TEENY:  These horses seem to be prepared. So I find that reassuring. The race is about to begin.

MALE SPEAKER:  All right, Man Against Horse Race. Let’s get started. (BACKGROUND VOICES)

NICOLE TEENY:  And they take off.

NICOLE TEENY:  Around mile three the horses are in the lead. But in the front of the human pack is my orange hat buddy Catlow. (CHEERING)

MALE SPEAKER:  All right.

FEMALE SPEAKER:  Great job.

MALE SPEAKER:  Gotta get them horses.

FEMALE SPEAKER:  Oh, Catlow. You’re the man. Whoo.

NICOLE TEENY:  Third of the way into the race two horses are still in the lead. Catlow is closely tailing them. But coming up is a mandatory vet check, where all the horses have to stop. Catlow is not a horse, so he does not have to stop. And here’s his chance to gain some ground. So you’re wearing a stethoscope.

MALE SPEAKER:  Yes, ma’am. (WHINNY)

NICOLE TEENY:  Works on horses and humans?

DR. LANE KHILSTROM:  Absolutely.

NICOLE TEENY:  Dr. Lane Khilstrom conducts one of the mid-race vet checks in the center of what appears to be a repurposed camp site. The goal of these vet checks is to make sure each horse is healthy enough to continue.

DR. LANE KHILSTROM:  We’re here to keep the horse safe so that people don’t over-push ’em and damage ’em.

NICOLE TEENY:  If any horse is falling short of visually lame, it’s immediately pulled out, no exceptions. Rules are strictly enforced. Part of these rules include that the horse gets a safety break for around 45 minutes. The horses, just like the animals on a persistence hunt, need to rest so they don’t get over-exhausted.

NICOLE TEENY:  Their bodies aren’t built like ours, to keep going. As the rest of the horses trickle into the vet check, Catlow pulls ahead. He holds the lead up until mile 34 when a few horses pass him on the uphill. Peter Mortimer was right. Horses do dominate the uphill.

NICOLE TEENY:  And then Catlow catches up again when they’re on their final vet check break. I wait at the finish line, keeping my eyes peeled on the vast pasture ahead. Who will appear first? As the clock nears the eight-hour mark, a figure emerges in the distance.

NICOLE TEENY :  Lo and behold, it’s Catlow. Maybe this isn’t such an absurd idea after all. About 50 minutes later the leading pair of horses gallop across the finish line. Not only did Catlow cross the finish line first, but even after subtracting the time from the vet checks, he still outpaced almost every horse.

CATLOW SHIPEK:  Yeah, so I had, like, 10 horses pass me, and it was very demoralizing. But I think I caught most of ’em at the first vet check.

NICOLE TEENY:  Turns out Catlow and Peter aren’t the only running royalty present on or off the course. In fact, among the spectators is an Olympian, my personal running idol, Molly Seidel. And one of the race co-organizers is running prodigy, James Bonnett. (PLANE)

NICOLE TEENY:  As I head back to New York, I’m starting to think about my own race. Could this be the race for me? The race has a lot going for it. It’s a long distance, people take horse welfare seriously, and the vet checks are, like, the breaks the animals take during a persistence hunt.

NICOLE TEENY:  Yet, this is a really buzzy scene with a lot of elite runners. While it’s inspiring, it’s not quite the headspace that I need right now. My goal isn’t to rank myself against the pros or dive back into that high-octane race hype. Who am I? I wanna battle my inner horses and outrun that mysterious horse.

MZ HORSE:  How do I run back to the person I used to be?

NICOLE TEENY:  Epilepsy ultimately I fight alone. And in my race I need to run alone. This isn’t the race I can do that. But what I have discovered here is a crucial puzzle piece to my race. Man Against Horse is not just an ultramarathon. It’s an endurance ride.

NICOLE TEENY:  And the endurance ride portion of the race checks off all my boxes. There’s hundreds of these rides every year. Maybe joining another endurance ride is the answer. I just have to find one that will let me join. Then I can face my horses on my own. It’s a dream and it’s a plan. But it still feels far away. Because for now I still can’t even run by myself. Mariel and I celebrate our one-year anniversary. We’re making plans together and talking about spending Thanksgiving with my family.

MARIEL:  You see a meme on Instagram and the meme is like, “My biggest relationship fear is marrying into a family that does Turkey Trot 5Ks.” (LAUGH) I’d never really just gone on a run for the sake of running. It was always, like, part of maybe a warm-up.

NICOLE TEENY:  Mariel’s been seeking a new athletic challenge since basketball. So she turns to me and says, “Do you want to run a Turkey Trot 5K with me?” She borrows my old running shoes and we set out for our first training run. I hope she knows what she got herself into. Are you ready?

MARIEL:  To try it?

NICOLE TEENY:  Yeah.

MARIEL:  Yeah. Uphill?

NICOLE TEENY:  We start out slow. That’s the intent. But once we get running, Mariel wants to keep going.

MARIEL:  That was so hard. (LAUGH) I wanted to be sure that I could finish it.

NICOLE TEENY:  You were gonna be a good runner. I could tell.

MARIEL:  I say I’m gonna do something then I have to do it well.

NICOLE TEENY:  You don’t half-ass things. You full-ass things. (LAUGHTER) Thanksgiving morning we line up at the race start. Seeing Mariel with the pre-race jitters is kinda cute. How are you feeling? (BACKGROUND VOICE) Habibi.

MARIEL:  Hayati (PH).

NICOLE TEENY:  To lefts.

MARIEL:  Two rights.

NICOLE TEENY:  Four feet.

MARIEL:  Our feet.

NICOLE TEENY:  Step, push.

MARIEL:  Lunge, lift.

NICOLE TEENY:  Step, push.

MARIEL:  Lunge, lift.

NICOLE TEENY:  You.

MARIEL:  Me.

NICOLE TEENY:  Your hand.

MARIEL:  In my hand. (CHEERING)

NICOLE TEENY:  We cross the finish line hand in hand. Mariel almost throws up. But a month later she runs her first 10K. Not long after that she’s sending me links to a bunch of other races. And just like that, running evolves again into something new. I’m doing one of my favorite things with my favorite person.

NICOLE TEENY:  I cannot believe how lucky I am. And now I’m actually building a running routine again. But it’s not enough. I still feel this pull inside me to run alone against the horses. But in order to run by myself I’ll have to confront those horses inside of me. I need a more effective treatment. I need to up my mileage. But little do I know the worst is yet to come. On the next episode of GIRL v. HORSE:

FEMALE SPEAKER:  They’re a lot faster than you are. They’re gonna run your ass over.

FEMALE SPEAKER:  I’m tryin’ to figure out if I should call 911 or not. (LAUGH) Tryin’ to make sure you stay alive.

NICOLE TEENY:  I just wanna beat a couple horses, and now I’ve been worried I’m not gonna beat any. 

NICOLE TEENY: GIRL v. HORSE was created, hosted, and executive produced by me, Nicole Teeny. Our story editor was Jazmine (JT Green), with additional editing by Audrey Quinn. Mariah Dennis was our associate producer. Sound design and mixing by Michelle Macklem. Original music and theme song composed by Morgan Kibby. The mysterious horse was brought to life by Summer Banks. Our production assistant was Mariel Sarkis. For 30 for 30 podcasts and ESPN, Adiza Eghan was our lead producer. Senior editorial producer was Preeti Varathan. Line producer was Catherine Sankey. Associate producer was Gus Navarro.