The Sterling Affairs: Lets Talk Clipped Episode Three
Kelly AuCoin (as Andy Roeser): You spent your entire life in the NBA. You’re the– (LAUGH) the worst possible messenger. People are gonna think, “If Elgin was really so unhappy, why didn’t he just leave?”
Clifton Davis (as Elgin Baylor): With a stain on me from this team’s reputation, where was I going to go? (SIGH) You can understand that.
Clinton Yates: What’s up, kiddos? You’re listening to Let’s Talk Clipped. Ramona Shelburne isn’t able to host today’s episode, so I will be taking over. My name is Clinton Yates. I’m the host of ESPN Daily. And I am a huge fan of the series, so I’m excited to dig in.
Today we’re gonna talk about the fourth episode of the series, Winning Ugly. This flashes back to a few different moments in the lives of our characters. First, a young Doc Rivers playing for the Clippers is distraught after L.A. police brutally beat Rodney King.
Later, a young V. Stiviano is trying to break into the entertainment industry. And Shelly Sterling is considering divorce. My guests today are Kelly AuCoin, who plays Andy Roeser, and Kevin Bray, who directed the episode. Kelly and Kevin, welcome.
Kelly AuCoin: Thank you for havin’ us. Appreciate it.
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Clinton Yates: To start with, and I’ll start with you, Kevin, what interested you most about this particular story.
Kevin Bray: Just the kind of insight into how Sterling got where he was, how everyone found their way to becoming the characters they were. So that was kind of the inciting incident of curiosity for me. I also liked the idea that we were gonna kinda break the aesthetic of the show and had so much freedom to create this thing that was completely outside the vernacular of the way we were shooting the show. Actually, that’s probably the most exciting point for me, ’cause I got to make a little movie inside the limited series that is Clipped. It’s like a Russian doll, (LAUGH) you know?
Clinton Yates: Nesting doll.
Kelly & Kevin: Yeah.
Clinton Yates: Kelly?
Kelly AuCoin: For me, I think it’s probably obvious and for anyone who’s seen the episode. It’s just a great fuckin’ scene.
Clifton Davis (as Elgin Baylor): It’s a termination letter.
Kelly AuCoin (as Andy Roeser): No. No. No. You’re– you’re– you’re– you’re still a part of the organization. It’s– it’s a new role. A transition–
Clifton Davis (as Elgin Baylor): A transition to making half my salary so you can use my name without having to hear my voice.
Kelly AuCoin: I got to work with Clifton Davis, who’s a legend. He and I talked about it during and after, and it was such a long scene. It was just the two of us. And very few times were we stopped, you know? We were allowed to drive through the whole scene a number of times. And that’s rare for something so long. And– both of us who have theater backgrounds, we’re like, “Hey, this was great. This was– this is kinda like a play.”
Clinton Yates: Yeah–
Kelly AuCoin: And– so I loved workin’ with him. And I loved getting to the meat of what makes Andy, our version of Andy, tick. And it feels like an inflection point, you know, like, where he does something– you can tell he does something that he doesn’t think is completely right. But he’s made his deal with the devil, and this is sort of where he’s all in, I think.
Clinton Yates: I think one of the things you captured well was that sense of kind of willful ignorance as to the real lives of Black people and Elgin Baylor having to be the one that delivered it.
Kelly AuCoin (as Andy Roeser): When I get to feelin’ down, you know what I do? I look in the mirror and I say to myself, “You know how lucky you are to have had this incredible career in the NBA?”
Clifton Davis (as Elgin Baylor): You were 25 when you started with the Clippers. What had you accomplished, good grades? You are lucky. I was–
Kelly AuCoin (as Andy Roeser): No. True. As– bad comparison.
Clinton Yates: Like, aw, come on. There’s this. There’s that. And I’m like, “Dude, I want to punch this guy in the face right now”–
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: Oh, I wanted to. (LAUGHTER) I wanted to punch myself in the face a couple times.
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah. And I– and I think that that goes to the writing and the direction. They let us play. I think they saw that we had a handle on– on what that vibe was. Also this was the main audition scene. So a year before, ’cause it w– there were some delays before we got started, a year before, I auditioned with it. And– the lines I could memorize, like, so easily, which is a mark of great writing.
Clinton Yates: Huh.
Kelly AuCoin: The vibe of it was just so apparent to me. He’s a character who’s like, “I’m gonna eat shit, and I’m gonna love it (LAUGH) because I’m with this impressive man, Donald Sterling. And that means– being his lapdog for all of these things.” You can tell he knows things are wrong, but you also can tell he finds something impressive about it. It’s a really weird balance I think Andy has.
Kevin Bray: There is a revelation of how he got to be who he is when he climbs up the side of the Malibu mountain and–
Kelly AuCoin: (LAUGH) Yeah.
Kevin Bray: –expresses (LAUGH) his concern about the 2013 situation. But– I felt like I had some sympathy for him. He’s so gobsmacked when Elgin says–
Clifton Davis (as Elgin Baylor): Call him and tell him I’m going to sue.
Kelly AuCoin (as Andy Roeser): Sue? For what?
Clifton Davis (as Elgin Baylor): Unlawful termination.
Kelly AuCoin (as Andy Roeser): No, Elgin, you’re (LAUGH) not being fired.
Clifton Davis (as Elgin Baylor): Racial discrimination for years.
Kevin Bray: Like, you have to be actively antiracist. You can’t be just like, “You know, I have Black friends,” (LAUGH) you know–
Clinton Yates: Yeah. Right.
Kevin Bray: And so that, I think, is this guy not being actively antiracist and getting the life that he has acquired hitting from the ladies’ tees, you know? Like, not realizing that he’s advantaged and thinking he’s not part of the problem. But then also you did it in a way that you’re kinda sympathetic. Like, I wanted to punch him, but I also was like, “I– I guess”– maybe I just experienced so many people like that in my life, particularly–
Clinton Yates: Right.
Kevin Bray: –comin’ from the Midwest. And so it’s just a really interesting and nuanced between thing about bigotry, or racism, or passive racism, or something like that.
Clinton Yates: Yeah, professional bootlicking is definitely a job. (LAUGHTER) I’m from D.C., so I know a lot of this in a different regard in terms of how people move up in the world professionally–
Kevin Bray: Yeah, it’s–
Clinton Yates: –and operationally. And so–
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah, I s–
Clinton Yates: –that really read.
Kelly AuCoin: I spent half my life in D.C. I hear you. It’s so easy, I think, for people to, if it’s the path of least resistance–
Clinton Yates: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: –to not quite see things. And even though 25% of their brain is aware that they are deliberately fuzzing out the edges, I think that’s w– what some of the writing for this character captured.
Kelly AuCoin: For a lot of the people on the team–
Clinton Yates: Yeah. One of the things I loved about this particular episode and in general is the usage of archival footage as a way to indicate the passage of time but also the vibe of the moment. And, you know, in the flashback element of this with Doc, where he’s looking back on what his life was like during the riots, and talking with his father, and I don’t want to say picking a fight with his wife (LAUGH) but kinda getting into it in front of the kids–
Kevin Bray: Uh-huh (AFFIRM).
Clinton Yates: Dad’s in there smokin’ on the couch. Like, there– there’s something that the newsreel element provides and then switches to the personal side of it that I think is fascinating. And I do want to know what you were trying to get to in terms of humanizing the character of Doc with that juxtaposition of him remembering, sleeping on the plane, all of that stuff in between. It’s a flashback, but those all have purposes. What were the purposes there other than just random storytelling?
Kevin Bray: It wasn’t random. I think it was to give context. And, in fact, it was like sometimes v– you know, fashion is function. Maybe that doesn’t make any sense. But, like, that was the most efficient way for us. We actually tried to create– an environment that was– in some of the earlier drafts, we shot some material where we tried to emulate or recreate a sliver of what was going on in the streets, and it was just very difficult, and it was not– as authentic as I thought it should have been.
And I don’t think Gina thought that it was– and, you know, it’s hard to remember how the stock footage came in. I know that that script was a lot more sprawling. We were dealing with the whole city. And then, you know, the reality of budgeting came in, and we had to contract it.
But for me, I got the job in an interesting way in which you have to do a presentation and a pitch, and write a document, and then go in front of the whole of the network, and get assigned the job. And– I had been maybe avoiding for some reason attaching my passion to this project in my presentation.
And one of the folks from Color Force, Brad Simpson, coaching me through the process is like, “You need to connect yourself more to this thing in this document that you’re presenting.” And then I realized that Doc reminded me of my grandfather. My grandfather’s name is Conklin Burghardt Bray. He’s passed in 2018.
Clinton Yates: What a name.
Kevin Bray: He was born in Chicago– to a m– mixed race mother and a Black father in 1918, and they named him Conklin because Conklin was part of Abraham Lincoln’s Cabinet and supposedly a big advocate of the abolition of slavery movement. And Burghardt is the B in W.E.B. Du Bois.
So obviously they were creating their little race man, you know what I mean? And then he eventually went on to work with Ralph Bunche, and be involved in the NAACP very aggressively, and was a career educator, and was a very prominent individual in Detroit’s ascendance as a Black Power city.
And I realized how much of him was about this intention that, “I– if I just go down the straight road, and I just learn how to speak properly, and I get this job, and I’m, like, a real, viable part of society, the bigotry will slip off of me. It won’t happen.”
And Doc reminded me of, like, one of the last vestiges of that before we get to, like, Allen Iverson, like, where we’re at this, like, “Fuck this shit. It’s never gonna change, and I have no respect for any of you because don’t smile in my face,” which is kind of what this whole story is about.
So connecting to Doc Rivers through my grandfather and a lot of the men in my family, it exploded my– my thinking about the show. And then– ultimately when I presented it in that way, it was received very, very well. I mean, you know, I know Laurence from Black-ish. We did a lot of work together. And there’s a familial kind of paternal thing between he and I. Like, he reminds me of family, you know?
Clinton Yates: Yeah–
Kevin Bray: Like, he’s just got his presentation. And so that thread is through the whole show. And so this was the backstory to a certain kind of prototypical B– Black man that I am very familiar with.
Clinton Yates: Along those lines, did you have any pause in usin’ the word nigga in your script?
Lawrence Gilliard Jr. (as Grady Rivers): ‘Member that summer I put you in that expensive-ass basketball camp. I come home from patrol, and you was cryin’?
Freddie L. Fleming (as Young Doc Rivers): I don’t remember cryin’.
Lawrence Gilliard Jr. (as Grady Rivers): You was cryin’, talkin’ some you didn’t want to go back because them white boys was callin’ you nigger.
Freddie L. Fleming (as Young Doc Rivers): Nobody called me that before.
Lawrence Gilliard Jr. (as Grady Rivers): And what’d I tell you?
Freddie L. Fleming (as Young Doc Rivers): I better show them who this nigga is.
Lawrence Gilliard Jr. (as Grady Rivers): You goddamn right.
Clinton Yates: The reason I bring that up is because in this particular scene, there’s the way people say that word who are tryin’ to hurt people’s feelings.
Kevin Bray: (LAUGH) Yeah.
Clinton Yates: There are the way people say that word when people are reading off of a page. Then there’s a way that Black people say that word to each other when they in the house or in the backyard–
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Clinton Yates: It is very clear that this was the last of those categories. But that wasn’t necessarily in the flow of kind of everything we’d seen from Doc, never mind his dad.
Kevin Bray: Right. You know, my grandfather never used that word. He never swore. And none of his siblings and the grands do. And it’s funny the way that Doc’s father said it. It’s like, “Is he replaying it? Or is he– does he say it like that? Is he uncomfortable to use the word? Like, ‘I’m never gonna use that word. I’m not gonna degrade myself to that,’ ’cause he may be from that generation?”
That was a decision he made as an actor. But it is– like, that one moment when the dad says it for me was always like, “Ooh, what’s he doing?” But at the same time I’m like, “So what,” you know? This happens, and it hurt in maybe a good way to see that from the dad, ’cause you got right to the story he was telling, what he was recounting.
And you got really to what was the crux of Doc’s angst from that little bit of storytelling. And then, particularly because of– who we have as the storyteller and it was a very diverse group of people doing the show– so you start to self-monitor for censorship. Like, “Can we do this?” And I would hope that we can.
Clinton Yates: Staying in that scene, the one part that really I think kinda hit home was I was in high school when O.J. happened. And I remember the parts that that scene hit hardest for me were just random white folks bein’ nice to Doc for no real reason.
Kevin Bray: Uh-huh (AFFIRM).
Clinton Yates: And that culminates, rather, with the neighbor, Susan, coming over and bringing oranges.
Erin Coker (as Susan): Oh, hi. I’m Susan. Oh, it’s awful. I had to get in the backyard and just pick.
Female Voice: Susan. More oranges?
Erin Coker (as Susan): Is it oppressive?
Clinton Yates: Then he ends up later firin’ his fastballs into the back of his, you know, rim. What was the significance of the oranges? I mean, in The Godfather, oranges mean somebody’s gonna die. But in this particular case, that scene and that whole interaction, what did that signify?
Kelly AuCoin: So I wasn’t involved with those scenes or that storyline, but when I was watching it, to me, it was uncomfortable. And it’s example what you’re saying, this random overflowing of superficial kindness. Sympathy for some of those people who th– thought that that was the way they could make something better.
But it’s ultimately so ineffectual and also makes other people uncomfortable. It made Doc uncomfortable because– why now? Why does it take this to make you be civil to me or just see me? And the oranges, I don’t know if there was a specific symbolism, but it felt like the neighbor coming over and maybe– overcompensating. One of the vibes I felt about that scene that was so harrowing was this attempt at normalcy.
Clinton Yates: Hmm.
Kelly AuCoin: “No, everything’s fine. We’re in our little enclave. We’re not affected directly by this, so oof, yeah, it’s bad. Orange juice?” You know–
Clinton Yates: Uh-huh (AFFIRM).
Kelly AuCoin: I thought that was very effective. There was a surreality to it I thought was fascinating.
Kevin Bray: Well, I think I gotta give it to Gina. The oranges were particularly something Gina was doing, and it’s a very literary thing that I think she was doing. So the oranges were a thematic thing throughout. You noticed that–
Clinton Yates: Yeah.
Kevin Bray: –right? Like–
Clinton Yates: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kevin Bray: –Donald not being able to efficiently peel the orange, thinking–
Kelly AuCoin: Oh.
Kevin Bray: –it tastes nasty. So he has a kind of inherent disdain for any kind of sympathy. If we were to take the– I mean, I’m goin’ deep on metaphors, but if we were to take the orange as a metaphor, and then when we are introduced to V., she’s– isn’t she cutting oranges?
Clinton Yates: The sports agent in his kitchen. He’s–
Kevin Bray: There’s– yes, there’s oranges there. Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: Oh–
Clinton Yates: –he’s– chips his tooth–
Kevin Bray: Yeah, yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: Right.
Clinton Yates: On an orange–
Kevin Bray: Yeah, yeah. So–
Kelly AuCoin: Right.
Clinton Yates: –as well.
Kevin Bray: And Gina could probably tell you very succinctly what that means to her. Also it’s a Los Angelean– it’s just a thing that kind of instantly takes you either to Florida or here. But I think about oranges here. You think about Chinatown. You think about all the cinematically. So, yeah, she had a real intention in that. And then he’s smashing the oranges at the end. The– on– like you said, your kind of fake sympathy and empathy–
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah.
Kevin Bray: –is– you know, it’s what’s gutturally going on with him. And he’s angry about what he’s about to become.
Kelly AuCoin: And even if it’s not intentionally fake, it is deeply insufficient.
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: And too late in so many ways–
Kevin Bray: (LAUGH) Yeah.
Clinton Yates: We talked about the kitchen scene that derives from the masquerade party. We got a couple party questions here, because that’s a big part of this–
Kevin Bray: Uh-huh (AFFIRM).
Clinton Yates: –program and this series. We’ll start with the masquerade party.
Yvonna Pearson (as Deja): Listen. There’s plenty of overpaid, under-fucked men in there. So if the spirit moves you to get a little frisky, there are worse places to catch a sugar daddy.
Cleopatra Coleman (as V. Stiviano): I don’t need a sugar daddy. That’s how they get control of you.
Yvonna Pearson (as Deja): No. You don’t need a sugar daddy, which is why you’re boosting babydoll dresses from Old Navy. You have to bargain with the devil if you want to get ahead.
Clinton Yates: V., the character, clearly out of her element, sort of learning what the big leagues are about for lack of a better term. What was that scene like in terms of shooting it? I mean, it gets reasonably raunchy, you know, for grown folks in the room.
Clinton Yates: But I think it tells a story of what people think about what goes on in Hollywood, especially with recent news of various people who may or may not end up behind bars in real, actual life. What was that scene like in terms of shooting it, in terms of getting it done and what you were trying to achieve with the scene?
Kevin Bray: Well, I think everything that is done is referenced from reality. There’s a particular type of party that was going on around Los Angeles at that time. And they were swinging parties. And they were known, but they were done by this guy. There’s like a Vanity Fair article about it. So that w– (EXHALE) that was our inspiration, is that–
Kelly AuCoin: A likely story.
Kevin Bray: (LAUGH) Yeah. That’s the inspiration, is that– that– that– these things really did exist, and they might become an entrée for a girl who is looking for a quick way to meet the right people that are gonna ascend her in town. Now I guess at heart, again, speaking back to Midwestern protestant (LAUGH) values, Lutheran school K-12, like, it’s hard for me to– that’s not a type of filmmaking that–
Clinton Yates: You blushed a little bit? Is that what you’re sayin’?
Kevin Bray: Yeah, I did. And then I just kind of surrendered to it, which I had to, ’cause the story– you have to become the story as you’re shooting it, and went with it. And then– and since it had to have verisimilitude to the– what we had read about these sex parties, these swinging parties, we just went for it.
Kevin Bray: But shooting those kinda things, to me, is like doing stunts. Everybody’s on board. We all gather ’round. “This is what’s gonna happen. Does anybody have any trepidations or nervousness about safety,” you know, emotional safety now particularly in the day and age we live in.
Kevin Bray: “Okay. This is gonna happen.” Very specific about what’s going to be happenin’ and who’s gonna do this. And we also hired actors who– were comfortable with or had done that kind of filmmaking before in some regard. So th– that was helpful to us. It was grueling for us as well, because it was a night shoot. And so we were out at this party, living, kind of physically in this party as the sun– we shot it in reverse, but–
Clinton Yates: Right.
Kevin Bray: –I think we shot the last scene at dusk and then went into– as far as we could till the sun came up. But– yeah, it was pretty intense. (LAUGH)
Kelly AuCoin: And it’s a huge scene with all those– I mean, so much coverage, and so much (SIGH) angles. I mean–
Kevin Bray: Oh, yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: –like, getting the– so many angles and– and getting– the choreography right with all the background folks. And– that’s gotta be– especially when you’re racing the sun.
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: It’s not a studio. You can’t go (LAUGH) 16 hours.
Kevin Bray: You know? Yeah, racing the sun, and th– and those extras.
Kelly AuCoin: I mean, I loved so much of the episode, but one of the things that I particularly loved was Yvonna as Deja got to really, really take off. Such amazing presence from the first time we see her at the food truck–
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: –with V.
Yvonna Pearson (as Deja): There’s a party going on tonight. Some reality producer’s there. You should come.
Cleopatra Coleman (as V. Stiviano): I have an early call tomorrow, and I’m kinda broken out. (LAUGH)
Yvonna Pearson (as Deja): You want to be famous? Find the people who can make things happen in this town drunk at a party. Make a good impression. Someday the stars will cater to you.
Kelly AuCoin: Her energy is so different from anybody else’s in the episode, and it’s, like, this guiding force, this benevolent guiding (LAUGH) force kinda. And it’s fun to see her and then how that relationship changes over the years. But Yvonna just knocks it out of the park, I think.
Kevin Bray: She does. She was– she was a real find. We all fell in love with her.
Kelly AuCoin: Kinda hard not to.
Kevin Bray: And that’s her, I think, you know? Just the physicality, the way she leaned into the window. There– there were no notes to give. She was just, you know, “I represent the life you want, and– this is what you can do, and–“
Kelly AuCoin: “And I see you.”
Kevin Bray: Yeah, “And I see y–” yeah, yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: That active–
Kevin Bray: Yeah, it was really genuine.
Kelly AuCoin: –you see it change– you s– yeah, you see it happening– across her eyes in such a short moment just, like, “Oh, I know you. I see you. I’m gonna–“
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: –“I’m– I’m gonna– come with me.”
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin (as Andy Roeser): Don’t be like that, dude. It’s Christmas. It’s– it’s a party. D– you haven’t even done Secret Santa yet. Okay. I’m your Santa. (LAUGH) I– I got you a Wii Fit.
Clinton Yates: I do want to ask you, you know, what was your favorite thing about playing that character, and how did it evolve in terms of Roeser himself from 2008 to 2014?
Kelly AuCoin: This is probably gonna sound like a bullshit answer, but– one of my favorite things, really perhaps my favorite thing about playing that character was getting to work with Ed and Laurence so closely, getting to work with Kevin, and Gina, and– and the other directors.
Kelly AuCoin: There was so much room for not improv exactly, but they seemed to delight in whatever we brought to the table. And a lot of shows aren’t like that. A lot of shows, it’s like, “No, no. And yeah, that’s, sure, funny, but stick on this line.” And so that sense of play was really fun.
Kelly AuCoin (as Andy Roeser): Natural light, am I right? (LAUGH) These– these both looked white at home. (LAUGH)
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah, I’d shot with Laurence already, but it was the first time where (LAUGH) we could actually get some physical comedy in–
Kevin Bray: Uh-huh (AFFIRM).
Kelly AuCoin: –where we’re standing– like, come up and, you know, kind of, “Hey. Hey, Doc. (LAUGH) We’re buddies, right, ’cause we work here? Everything’s great.” And it’s so obvious he doesn’t want to be with me. And Kevin threw in this great note on– on the fly.
Kelly AuCoin: He’s like, “You’re standing there awkwardly. Both of you want to leave, but you don’t know who’s (LAUGH) gonna go first, and so there’s this start-stop, zip, zip. And then Andy just, like, bolts.” (LAUGHTER) And there was something about that scene, which we shot in, like, week two or three–
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: –that kinda crystallized Andy for me in a different way. Just that, “I am going to comfortable. No, I’m not. I’m out.”
Kevin Bray: It also was such an important scene, you know, always testing the boundaries of tone in what the show could be and how funny it could be. And that really opened up, you know? It’s like, “If it bends,” that kinda thing. Like–
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah.
Kevin Bray: –we really (LAUGH) bent a lot of stuff.
Kelly AuCoin: I discovered that there’s a lot of fun to be had in playing a character who really, really wants to be respected and just has to constantly deal with the fact that he’s ju– he’s not.
Clinton Yates: No.
Kelly AuCoin: And his choice is to smile through that.
Clinton Yates: This is sort of off-topic, but there’s something about that character that reminds me of a mix of who William H. Macy and Philip Seymour Hoffman play in Boogie Nights—
Kelly AuCoin: Oh. Yeah.
Kevin Bray: (LAUGH) I can see that–
Clinton Yates: Like– and, you– you know what I’m saying? And, like–
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah.
Clinton Yates: –and especially with the whole Southern California kinda freewheeling vibe–
Kelly AuCoin: Uh-huh (AFFIRM).
Clinton Yates: –that’s where I feel like he kinda sits in.
Kelly AuCoin: That’s interesting. I kinda see– a Ned Flanders and a Smithers g–
Clinton Yates: Okay. Sure. (LAUGH)
Kelly AuCoin: –too. (LAUGHTER) That’s funny. He eats shit every day, and his choice and where he’s got himself into is that he’s like, “Please can I have some more? This is great. Yum.”
Kevin Bray: There is that archetypical person in every work situation, I think. I mean, every s– show I’ve ever been on, there’s that person, whether they’re trying to pleasantly be Lee Marvin, you know– filmmaking experience where they’re the holder of the purse strings.
Kevin Bray: That person is usually like that. They’re in this kind of feet in both worlds, tryin’ to relate to you creatively as a director but always kind of, like– and so they’re like, “Yeah, yeah, that’s a brilliant idea. Dah dah dah dah dah. But how can you do it for cheap?” Or, like, that’s just really– you– everyone feels– and they recognize that guy– as a human being that they’re dealing with at some part of their life, I think.
Clinton Yates: Yup–
Kevin Bray: You know? Whether you’re checking into–
Kevin Bray: –a hotel or–
Clinton Yates: (LAUGH) Yeah.
Kevin Bray: –or (LAUGHTER) talkin’ to the dude at Firestone, s– you’re gonna get that guy.
Clinton Yates: I was sayin’, my blood pressure’s goin’ up right now just thinking about all the people I’ve (LAUGHTER) encountered like that–
Kevin Bray: Yeah. Yeah, right?
Clinton Yates: –in my life. Kelly, for you, physical comedy (LAUGH) was a real part of this in terms of–
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah.
Clinton Yates: –the emotion that you got to display through various movements. None of them were athletic, let’s be honest (LAUGH) about that. But they were expressive. Could you tell me a little bit more about that process?
Kelly AuCoin: Oh, that hurts. (LAUGHTER)
Clinton Yates: I mean, you weren’t tasked with it, so–
Kelly AuCoin: Nah.
Clinton Yates: I’m not sayin’ you can’t–
Kelly AuCoin: I think there was a certain athleticism in pretending to be (LAUGH) so far from an actual athlete. Let’s go with– let’s go with that–
Kevin Bray: Yeah, that’s nice. I like that.
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. For– for– yeah. Anyway, I am not a physical comedian normally. But there were scenes that were staged in a way and written in a way where it was just funny. And one was trudging up in (LAUGH) my– my suit, half off ’cause I’m sweating like crazy, trudging up this giant hill– in Malibu to try to find out what Donald wants to do about this tape that’s just been dropped.
Kelly AuCoin (as Andy Roeser): (PANTING) Ah, Mr. Sterling.
Ed O’Neill (as Donald Sterling): What are you doing here? If I don’t answer your calls, it’s because I don’t want to talk to you.
Kelly AuCoin (as Andy Roeser): Yeah, I– I know. That’s– that’s why I came.
Kelly AuCoin: And he’s sitting there sunbathing nude with a newspaper across his junk. And– (LAUGH) that’s just funny– because how– you d– “Oh. Oh. Hello. (LAUGHTER) It’s you. Yeah. Okay. Hope you’re using sunscreen. But (LAUGH) there’s tape, um.”
Kelly AuCoin: And I love that scene also because it’s– and– this is in the writing, he– he never can just come out and say, “This is bad. You– we need to do something about it.” It’s like, “Hey, mmm, you know, I think maybe you oughta listen.” So there was insight into his character but physically and– and in what he couldn’t say, you know, the way he phrased things.
Kelly AuCoin: And then one other scene I remember that shot with Kevin– I think we did it 15 different ways, where Andy’s running through– the locker room tryin’ to– because he’s just found out, and he passes Doc and DeAndre. And Doc calls his name, and he stops, and he’s like, “Oh, hey– what’s up?”
Kelly AuCoin: He’s like, “H– what– are you okay?” And he’s like, “Yeah, gettin’ in my steps.” And he– he takes off again. But some of it we had him, like, slide out of the picture and come back in. Some we had him slam into (LAUGH) the wall. And through it all, he just had to be like, “Hey. (LAUGH) Great. You know, I’m smilin’. Thumbs up.” (LAUGH)
Kevin Bray: Did we say, “Gettin’ my steps in,” or somethin’?
Kelly AuCoin: “Gettin’ my steps (LAUGH) in,” yeah. It was just such an insight into his character.
Clinton Yates: Not for nothing, but– you had hair. (LAUGHTER) Tell me about the transformation physically that it took to get into that role, never mind research you did on the character himself–
Kelly AuCoin: Growing that head of hair (LAUGHTER) every, every day was so hard. It was probably– you– you think I’m not athletic. You know, (LAUGHTER) that took some skills.
Kevin Bray: Yeah, the handstand, the–
Kelly AuCoin: Handstand. (LAUGH) It was all upside down and shit–
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: –you know.
Kevin Bray: Gra– the gravity chamber–
Kelly AuCoin: Gravity (LAUGH) boots, (LAUGHTER) yeah. It was great, actually. And this is the second show where I’ve had a major role where I’ve had to– multiple, multiple times– sit in the chair before working. You know, it didn’t take that long. It was about 45 minutes.
Kelly AuCoin: And Theraesa is an amazing wig master, and I loved sittin’ with her. And it was kinda this chill time, especially if it was early in the morning. Like– like you said, a chill into what you’re about to do. And gradually, as that– the piece was glued to my head– the character starts to come out again. And it was fun ’cause Ed has a piece, as well, and he would come in– and it was fun to– to chat with him before we were about to do our weird, like, deeply fucked-up father-son relationship. (LAUGH)
Clinton Yates: Okay. It is time for the lightning round before we wrap here. Short, quick answers. I’m asking you all to understand (SIGH) that you’ve (LAUGH)–
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: You’re like–
Clinton Yates: –understood the assignment.
Kelly AuCoin: –“Did you just call us (LAUGH) talkative?”
Kevin Bray: (LAUGH) Yeah, yeah.
Clinton Yates: Whatever comes to your mind right off the top of your head, starting with you, Kelly. What was your first job as a teenage or a young person?
Kelly AuCoin: Dishwasher at my grandfather’s restaurant.
Kevin Bray: Golf caddie.
Clinton Yates: Coolest place you’ve ever shot a scene?
Kelly AuCoin: Malibu probably.
Kevin Bray: The favelas of M– Medellín.
Kelly AuCoin: Oh, Jesus. How can I compete with that? (LAUGH)
Clinton Yates: Do you have (LAUGH), like, a walk-up song, a mixtape, something you do to get fired up or get your creative juices flowin’?
Kelly AuCoin: Dry the Rain by– The Beta Band is a big one for me. Everybody’s got to look that up, but it’s awesome. Or Heroes by David Bowie.
Clinton Yates: Okay.
Kevin Bray: Probably Brand New Flava, Craig Mack, or Tones on Tails, and I don’t know the name or the title of the song. But, yeah, I go with Craig Mack.
Clinton Yates: All right.
Kevin Bray: Yeah.
Clinton Yates: What is an underrated show or flick that you don’t think gets talked about enough?
Kelly AuCoin: NewsRadio and South Central.
Clinton Yates: Nice.
Kevin Bray: Wow. Well, I’m watching this show called Deadloch right now that I like a lot. And I don’t know if anybody’s seen it, but there’s a spectacular couple of actors in that, and it’s a spectacularly fun show. Underrated films? Oh– Something Wild by Jonathan Demme.
Kelly AuCoin: Oh, yeah–
Kevin Bray: I mean, it’s not underrated. It’s just–
Kelly AuCoin: It’s not talked about that much. It’s great–
Kevin Bray: Yeah. People don’t– it’s– it’s– very important. Oh, it’s supposed to be–
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah.
Kevin Bray: –lightning round. (LAUGHTER)
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah.
Clinton Yates: Was just about to say–
Kevin Bray: It’s– it’s a Tarantino film–
Clinton Yates: Short, quick (LAUGH) answers.
Kevin Bray: –before Tarantino was even around.
Kelly AuCoin: That’s right.
Kevin Bray: It’s– it’s a cross-genre film.
Clinton Yates: NewsRadio, by the way, banger. That’s a good call–
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah, right?
Clinton Yates: All right, last one, boys. What’s your favorite basketball team?
Kelly AuCoin: Portland Trail Blazers.
Kevin Bray: I can’t do one ’cause I live so many– Pistons. Detroit Pistons.
Kelly AuCoin: There you go.
Clinton Yates: (CHANTING) Detroit basketball.
Kevin Bray: Yeah, that’s right–
Kelly AuCoin: And– shout out to my man, Bill Walton.
Clinton Yates: Rest in peace–
Kevin Bray: Oh, yeah.
Kelly AuCoin: Rest in peace.
Kevin Bray: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Clinton Yates: Westwood legend. Thanks.
Kevin Bray: Thank you–
Kelly AuCoin: Thank you.
Kevin Bray: That was fun.
Kelly AuCoin: Yeah, it was a blast–
Clinton Yates: Absolutely. All right.
Narrator: This episode was hosted by Ramona Shelburne and produced by Meghan Coyle. Our associate producer is Gus Navarro. Our line producer is Cath Sankey. Sound design by Ryan Ross Smith and original music by Hannis Brown. Preeti Varathan is our head of audio. Our head of development is Kati Fernandez. Our head of talent relations is Chantre Camack. Our executive producers for 30 for 30 and ESPN Films are Marsha Cooke, Brian Lockhart, Burke Magnus, and Heather Anderson. Our ESPN audio team includes Megan Judge and Devon McGowan. Special thanks to Roslyn Bibby at FX and Greg Bergman at ESPN LA Radio. As always, thank you for listening. Episodes of Let’s Talk Clipped drop every Tuesday until July 2nd.
